Combat Rules, Standards, Practices and Globally Accepted Judgements
Member Blog post · RolePlay
First thing's first...
This is an ADULT discussion and is limited to those that participate in combative maneuvers, actions and other activities as well as SENIOR home leadership, preferably Admin, Jarl, HOC and other "Above the Salt" titles. Physicians, Scribes, Herbalists, Merchants and other non-combat Castes, please respect this, with the promise that if this goes well enough, there will be another discussion that will involve ALL of us. Thanks.
That being said-
The recent "fight" between Haigan and Mortimas shed some light on a couple things for me and I believe it's worth brining up and discussing, and hopefully coming to a global consensus on the following:
1. Combat- We already have combat systems in place, 1-2-1 TB, Speed, Melee, Raid and others. What we don't have it seems is a "Global" standard of acceptance and judgement, like we had back in the day. Let's keep the current example.. .Haigain took an action against Mortimas in his own home. There were a lot of issues with the entire thing, but the glaring ones- No judge present or requested, and the demand for a 3rd party judge was answered with a melee attack. Now, I am not going to argue that it was within Haigan's right to do so, it's his home, his rules, his place to do as he pleases and not for me to have a say in. Until it comes to the effect OUTSIDE his home, in this example- Time away after a death.
To get to the point here- If (and Haigan, my apologies as you are the example here, but I wouldn't take this negatively) a home has the standard rules that have been adopted, recognized as agreed, however with modifications such as verbage that leaves room for interpretation (By OUR standard), is this set of rules still acceptable?
2. Judgement of combative actions- We have had this in the past and it works, now that Gor has gone to absolute shit in some areas, while actually getting better in others, this has falled completely off. Mostly I assume, due to lack of men fighting, capturing of slaves and Free Women and other combat actions over the years. It seems to be making a comeback, so once an action, such as Mortimas v. Haigan, is complete, what's the next step? The 2 parties agree and move on, that's one thing. But if there's a dispute by either party, do the rules of that home, regardless of modification from the set and accepted rules spell out the effect? Or does an independent and chosen, accepted 3rd party judge need to be called in for the rules to take effect outside that home?
I'll leave it at these 2 points for now as this has taken nearly 2 hours to write out during the work day and my brain is mush.
To answer the obvious-
This is meant to be productive.
This is meant to offer a better understanding of the rules of Combat
This is meant for combat billeted Castes such as Warriors, Slavers, Outlaws and such.
This is meant to be a civil conversation
Let's make Gor great again!
I am looking forward to responses.
Bart
Comments
20 comments on this post.
On the subject of calling for a judge, that part can go one of two ways. Either both parties agree that a formal match is about to happen(what Mortimas apparently was going for), or one party initiates a melee that can be judged after the fact(what Haigan went for). Two roads that meet in the same town, really.
Agreed, and the process from there should be fairly simple, pick one each and a third if they can't agree on an outcome.
Rules for time away have always been under the authority of a given home. Once upon a time the 'standard' was that when a character died the typist never returned to our slice of Gor. This obviously going back a very long way, and was eventually replaced with a 30 days away standard back in the heyday of MSN's prime. Somehwere along the way the standard changed to 14 days away. The point being that despite a pseudo-standard being set at times, it has always come down to individual home rules.
It brought up a good point, as did Haigan the other day.... So let me address this- Unfortunately, anyone who feels that I am seeking to bring Mortimas back from the dead, know this is not the case. If he did, however resurrect, I would be the FIRST to call for him to be stripped of his Caste for failing to defend himself from the forearm smack that killed him. A Warrior is BOUND to act when attacked, and he did not. So let's NOT make this about something it's not.
Ludo, you are dead on! the issue is, that the road in that town seemed to be under water, closed for construction or a sinkhole, as the action was not judged properly.
The only time a home's rules for time away would not necessarily be, or enforced by the self respecting community at large would be if said home's rules were excessive, or fundamentally inhibiting. Something like 'if killed here you can't come back to Gor for 6 months/a year/ever' would be viewed, I assume by everyone, to be excessive. However as far as I can tell that is not the case for the Frontier.
As far as what happens next in the example given goes; nothing happens. Assuming Talarius wasn't lying when he claimed Mortimas accepted the death, Mortimas is dead and the typist must do their time away in accordance with the rules of the Frontier. Between that claim, and the changing/clearing out of the profile of Mortimas, I'm inclined to believe that some kind of explicit acceptance was conveyed. To be honest this whole thing went on far too long.
It's not the time away part- It's the combat part. Have a look see at his rules, as long as they haven't changed.
I don't disagree that the actions were not properly judged, however there is one caveat that has trumped anything else since day 1 of this thing of ours: If you accept an action done to your character, or acknowledge it having been done to your character, the action is done to your character. No second looks needed after that. Acknowledgement has validated many an otherwise invalid action.
That's not under contest. And then there's the whole lack of response to the "attack"
I don't see anything that explicitly states that actions taking place in the Frontier cannot be judged by those outside the Frontier. Had Mortimas sent the scroll to a judge instead of telling someone he accepted the death, and clearing out his profile he almost certainly would still be alive. The real lesson to take away from all this is not to emotionally rush to action.
The lack of response to the attack doesn't validate the attack(or the intent post in this case). What validated those posts was Mortimas telling someone he accepted the judgement that he was killed by the posts. If that had not been the case there would be no basis for posts lacking crucial details to result in a character death. Example:
If I stand in front of you and throw something at your head, but it turns out I wasn't holding anything in my hand to begin with, does your lack of reaction mean you were hit with something? If I didn't state what I was picking up, or which hand I was doing it with, or even who I was throwing the nondescript thing without a stated hand, would your lack of reaction mean you had been hit with something other than air?
The fuck did I say about how this conversation is designed?? Come on men, take the details that don't belong here where they belong, and stay on topic.
Ludo, extreme example. But I like where you're going. Who decides if there was nothing in the hand? In the older days, I could see both combatants agreeing that nothing was there because of whatever technicality, and moving on. Hell, I have seen DM's end because someone forgot to prepost a weapon or mistyped the location or fuckall forgot to actually draw it. Now? No, but we can get there. Right? Right.
So it depends on who's judging. But a lack of reaction pretty much seals the fuckin' deal if there IS something there, and it's a properly typed action that is realistically plausible at very minimum. The scroll I saw? The profile I checked? Nothing. Unless he entered the day posting what's on his person or has proof of prior and reasonably recent role play with the item, where did the axe come from?
You're right Bart, I was out of line by going off-topic. My apologies.
Judges, or any trained eyes really would have been able to see that no target was named, no hand was stated in drawing 'the blade', and that 'the blade' was not named(sword, knife, dagger, etc etc etc). Whether or not something is named in the profile there are still two other glaring issues in that intent post. That's the problem.
It wasn't just you, I deleted a lot of comments. Haigan, do me a favor if you would? Don't take this as me attacking you, yes, I am using you as an example, as well as Mortimas and as well, others will be used as examples as well, including myself. Action is returning it seems, so let's get our shit together and maybe chill the fuck out and make this fun again. It honestly would be great.
No offense taken, carry on.